This remnant will be replaced soon. The FAQ is back, with a new design! How do I got about trading for live Phish? What it is - Staying legal - Trade guidelines - Finding Tapers What is a tape trade? You dub a tape and pay for postage; someone else does the same. (Or, especially if you're a newbie, you might just send blanks and postage and the other person is the only one who does any tape reproduction). The two of you discuss tapes' quality, length, choices, whatever you want beforehand, & mail to each other. This is the way that most shows get spread across the globe, though most tapes made are probably dubs off of net trades. (See also, CD trading. Be legal, or beware! Note that there are legal problems with taking any benefit (financial or otherwise -- blank tapes, etc.) from trading; see Steve Silberman's excellent article Trade a Tape, Go To Jail? in Wired. And, of course, don't bootleg (profit) from the tapes. General guidelines: The following seem to be standards, or at least safe bases to assume for some general order. You'll probably be expected to say something if what you have in mind varies from this list of conventions: Break out the tabs when you're done with each side -- the little square piece at the top of the tape, on each end of the top edge, that when popped out prevents that side from being recorded on. This lets you know that you've finished that side, and it prevents the recipient from accidentally erasing the tape you made them. And make sure to do it on your own masters, to ensure that you don't inadvertently dub a blank to an original - YIKES! Mail the cases (the plastic "boxes" the tapes come and are stored in) unless you've specifically agreed otherwise. Don't use dolby unless you've agreed otherwise (since it can't be undone). Provide setlists: Write on the back of the cassette labels slip unless you've mentioned or asked about writing on the J-cards, or unless you're providing j-cards. Most importantly, communicate! Rosemary <speno@clam.rutgers.edu> posted (12/13/95) suggesting, "Set up some ground rules ahead of time, and that way you can be sure you'll both get exactly what you want. The key to a successful trade is communication of every single aspect of the trade. Things you should discuss with a potential trading partner [include]: What show do you want, and what do you have to offer to me? What are the sources and generations of these shows? What brand and type of tapes are we going to use? What kind of decks are we using for dubbing? No Hi-Speed Dubbing? What are we going to to with Max Points? How are we going to package these shows for mailing? e.g. include the plastic cases, use bubble wrap, etc What kind of turnaround time for the trade do we expect? -for some, a "fast trade" means overnight, for others, it means 3 weeks! Plan what to do if the tapes do not arrive when expected (e.g. email a reminder, make a phone call, etc.) Get the trader's full name, address, and phone number (that way, if something does go wrong, you don't have to post a "personal message to:" message) Keep a copy of all important info somewhere other than your computer, since crashes do occur and stuff can be lost If you take the extra couple of minutes to get all of this communication done, your trades will go smoothly and efficiently, and we can hope that everyone will become "Good Traders" Finding Traders: Post grovels: You can "grovel" for a tape, just posting a request for that show if you want, but if it's old, very recent, rare, or good quality... actually, with just about any tape given the current size of the net, there are bound to be many others doing the same thing. If every mention of a tape gets mail responses of 30 requests for that tape, the net is going to see a huge loss of discussions of tapes people have. That is, if netiquette can't keep up with growth of the net, the net is going to experience some qualitative losses. Respond to offers: Or respond to discussion of tapes (but see below and see netiquette) and try to respond via private email rather than to rec.music.phish. If you do respond, make an offer in your first mailing, rather than a general "can I have it" question. Send your list with a few suggestions at the top; dont just suggest something, cause if the person has it, he may ignore your request. Dont expect an answer immediately, and BY ALL MEANS dont hound for an answer; even that takes time. It may not happen the same day or week; may take two weeks, but after that you should try again or forget it. There has been some debate, but the general consensus seems to be that you are "out-of-line" (whatever that is) to "expect" or "demand" any tape from anyone, unless a trade has been agreed to and completed by one party. Watch for specials: Watch for beginners' tape offers (also see veterans). Meet people: Talk to other Phish.Netters on email or meet them at shows. Just talk with folks about their favorite songs and versions and shows, on email or IRC or the phone or in lots at shows, and eventually you'll run into the knowledge of someone's having something you want. That's much better than just copying everything you can get your hands on. Check back in: Many people have known each other for months or even years through the net and just get in contact every now and then to trade lists again. Keep track of with whom you trade and check in with them again in 4, 6, or 8 months. Youll be surprised! List archives: If you're looking for folks with big lists, try checking the archive for the collection of lists. Also, check out: TapeTracker - great software, and tight trading community Trading Post - list your interests and find those with same tapetrader.com - post your list as bait, and wait Swish's Phish Trading - post wants & grovels Hours: "How do I know how many hours of Phish I have?" Most people just multiply the number of sets they have by 1.5 -- 20 shows, with both sets each, is 40 sets, one on each tape, so 40 tapes, most 90-100 minutes, so 60 hours. Some programs keep a running total, but those have been disputed. See also Helping Friendly Book, Beginners' info, and J-cards. Note on AOL traders: Folks from aol addresses are often mistrusted outright, because it's so easy for "bad traders" to abuse the AOL freebies. Daniel P. Maloney <ce753@freenet.buffalo.edu> suggests, "This is going to continue to happen until you start demanding references from AOLers who want to trade with you. There are plenty of honest traders for whom AOL is the only way to get email but there are also lots of dickheads who use their free 10 hours, set up a few phony 'trades' and vanish off the face of the earth. Just asking an AOLer for the email addresses of a few people they've traded with is not too much to ask, imho. Just using common sense." Thanks also to Loughery <patlo@microsoft.com> (9/23/90). "If you let people tape and build that way, and you do good shows which are worth taping, you're probably going to build a larger live fan base as opposed to your record fan base. You're building a reputation for your live show."" -- Bela Fleck, Tackle Box, Summer 1996" This page last updated January 24, 2007. All contents © 1992-2007 Ellis Godard. All rights reserved.