Tuesday 01/10/2012 by jackl

A FEW CHOICE WORDS ON SCALPING

One of the staple topics of Phish discussion on the internet as far back as I can remember, when I first got internet access and hopped onboard the old “rec.music.phish” newsgroup in 1994, is “scalping” and the extreme dislike for those engaged in reselling Phish tickets for well above “face”.

People were complaining then about “scalpers” and three digit prices being asked for tickets to the sold-out Halloween show at my hometown hockey rink, the Glens Falls Civic Center (capacity 5,500), during Phish “1.0’s” meteoric rise in popularity in those years.

The complaints have persisted for every Halloween, Vegas and New Years Eve run since then, up to and including a thread on the .net forum last week beginning with a complaint by user @ashefly.

In reading Dean Budnick and Josh Baron’s new book, Ticket Masters, recently reviewed by Jim Raras in the Phish.net blog, I was therefore mildly surprised to find out that “scalping” has a long and controversial history, going back well beyond Phish and modern arena rock shows, to shows in pre-Civil War America:

An excerpt from the book explains:

Ticket scalping, however, was by no means a recent phenomenon, as it plagued Charles Dickens during his second tour of America in 1867-68. The author’s manager, George Dolby, estimated that just before the Boston box office opened in November, "by eight o'clock in the morning, the queue was nearly half a mile long and about that time the employers of the persons who had been standing in the streets all night began to arrive and take their places." A frenzy soon ensued, leading contemporaries to decry "the horrid speculators who buy all the good tickets and sell them again at exorbitant prices." Dickens himself responded in a letter to his sister-in-law: "We are at wits' end how to keep tickets out of the hands of speculators... The young under-graduates of Cambridge have made a representation to Longfellow that they are five hundred strong and cannot get one ticket. I don't know what is to be done, but I suppose I must read there, somehow." When tickets went on sale in New York, Dickens reported that "speculators went up and down offering twenty dollars for any body's place. The money was in no case accepted. But one man sold two tickets for the second, third and fourth nights; his payment in exchange being one ticket for the first night; fifty dollars and a 'brandy cock-tail.'"

This matter was of particular concern to Dickens, not only because he wanted to satisfy everyone's interest, but also because frustration led to intimations that he was in league with the resellers. "We cannot beat the speculators in our tickets. We sell no more than six to anyone person for the course of four readings; but these speculators who sell at gready increased prices and make large profits will employ any number of men to buy. One of the chief of them — now living in this house, in order that he may move as we move! — can put on fifty people in any place we go to; and thus he gets three hundred tickets into his own hands."

Yet Dickens was not the first to find himself traveling with ticket scalpers. His predicament echoed the events of 1851, when the "Swedish Nightingale," singer Jenny Lind, toured the United States. An article entided "The Jenny Lind Fracas" outliried a combustible situation in Hartford, Connecticut. "It appeared very evident, as early as Friday afternoon, July 4th, that there was much dissatisfaction on the part of a majority of our citizens, in consequence of the tickets to the concerts getting unfairly into the hands of speculators. ... [When tickets went on sale after a fifteen-minute delay] there was a rush for the ticket stand. It was soon discovered that a very large number of tickets for the very best seats in the house had already been disposed of; and in the course of an hour and a half every ticket in first hands was sold, and yet hundreds, perhaps thousands who wished to procure tickets, were not supplied. The next morning large painted signs were floating from four different places around the State House Square, with the words, "Jenny Lind tickets for sale here." The regular price of the tickets was three and four dollars. The speculators demanded four and six dollars.... The general belief that [Lind's] agents and speculators were in fact bona fide partners in the swindle — for they travel together from place to place — raised the indignation of our citizens to an unnatural degree."

Collusion between resellers and insiders was long suspected and often documented. A letter to the editor in the April 5, 1908 New York Times, signed by Grandpa, related his attempts to attend the circus at Madison Square Garden with his family. Upon arriving at the facility, "The box office man smilingly informed me 'All sold out.' And at my elbow stood the bargain speculator. 'Saturday afternoon, sure!' and from his well filled satchel he produced a bunch of tickets and showed how well he was stocked.... The speculator was cheek by jowl with the management, for he stood well into the lobby, only a few feet from the box office. I suppose this condition of affairs will endure as long as fools continue to buy tickets from speculators but there should be some pretense of protection for people like me who can’t help themselves.”

Over the following decades, local, state and even national officials looked into doing just that. In 1927 New York City resident and newly appointed United States Attorney Charles H. Tuttle hosted hearings on the matter. Producer Arthur Hammerstein testified to the corruption and graft of "gougers and ticket brokers." The investigation swiftly revealed that box office workers were funneling tickets to agents in exchange for monetary kickbacks, with individuals often attaining $50,000 to $75,000 per year. The prevailing "commission" at that time was a dollar per ticket for primo seats that otherwise would be held by the box office, which led to the early closing of the show Yours Truly, when brokers eventually refused to accept the $1.50 charged by the musical's George Buck, who soon came to be known on Broadway as "Buck and a Half."

The situation hadn't changed considerably by the time of a 1949 probe initiated by John M. Murtagh, commissioner of New York City's Department of Investigation. Two pieces of industry jargon soon captivated reporters and entered the public parlance. The word "digger" described those individuals who had once vexed Charles Dickens, hired by brokers to wait in line when tickets first went on sale. "Ice" was the term for the money directed to box office officials by the agencies to ensure a steady flow of choice tickets to popular shows. However, other than the proliferation of such colorful language, little came of Murtagh's efforts.

Excerpt from Ticket Masters: The Rise of the Concert Industry and How The Public Got Scalped, pp. 20-21 by and © 2011 Dean Budnick and Josh Baron, quoted by permission.

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Comments

, comment by walstib
walstib Dickens second tour of America wasn't nearly as good as Dickens 1.0.
, comment by forbin1
forbin1 Good read...unfortunately scalping will always be around as long as people attend events ..
, comment by phan83
phan83 Scalping could be discouraged pretty easily simply by raising the face value. Face value is obviously lower than it should be, or at least than it should have been for NYEMSG. For events like that, it's about capitalizing supply and demand. Phish could do many things for the attendees to reward them for actual attendance (with the extra earnings).
, comment by kipconner
kipconner It's a tough call. I refuse to purchase scalped tickets not only for the reason that this money doesn't go to the entertainer in any way and secondly I just can't afford the price. One the issues with ticket scalping is that artists can use it as a way to determine their own market value. While that doesn't sound like a bad thing for them, it means that the agents, managements, promoters can all collectively decide to raise the ticket price across the board. A decision that is based on the ill will of just a few persons corner the scalping market.

So do we decide as a whole to not purchase these tickets and let them sit? Maybe. If the Phish community decides to boycott the scalpers the tickets will still sell to the peripheral of people who are going "just to go". The end result will be a large selection of folks who can't reciprocate the energy that Phish needs to perform well. One of the interesting comments that I read amongst the hundreds was that the audience didn't give good vibes during one of the show openers and while that statement is purely an opinion- the results of these situations are very real.

I'm glad that Phish doesn't seem to be as fragile as some of the artists that I have been around. If so, the ill will of a few people who have no intention of attending the shows they bought tickets for can ruin an evening.
, comment by StillWading
StillWading Come on people. Just think how many robots are employed to run those nifty mass purchase algorithms. It's time we dig deep and become better capitalists.
, comment by Slothsucci
Slothsucci @StillWading you are right
, comment by kingphish68
kingphish68 Scalping is simple, capitalistic, Marketing 101 of supply & demand. As long as people are willing to spend x number of $ to see a performer at a venue that can not accomodate everyone wanting to see said perfromer, there will always be a shortage of tickets and a premium placed on the tickets that ARE available. Of course with the robo buyers mentioned above, this further reduces the lot of tickets available to the general public.
I have been going to concerts for a long time and it appears to me that even the promoters and venue themselves often times 'hold' back a certain number of tickets, and I wouldn't put it past some of them that they are also participating/inside source, etc. of working with these robo buyers. When you think about it, how many of us have ever gotten tickets in "pre-sell" that were really good seats in the lower levels, on the floor, first couple of rows, etc. Why? Because often times these seats are still held back by the promoters or not put into the general pool of tickets for available to the public.
Honestly, I wish the bands could just sell all of the tickets themselves, but the promoters, venues, etc. will not let them. In the case of Phish though, it would be nice if the band would/could negotiate with these venues & promoters for the rights to sell at least 50% of the tickets through their own system to eliminate(as best they can) that the majority of tickets go to their true fans.
, comment by The_Stallion
The_Stallion If you don't like it, don't buy them. Thanks for the money throughout the years, suckers. I look forward to this years shows.
, comment by EUPhan
EUPhan Its so easy to stop it: Radiohead, Pearl Jam and other bands only sell personalized tickets (at least outside the US). If you really want to stop it as a band then there are ways.
, comment by macey66
macey66 When face is around $70. The bands playing the venues get roughly 10% of the best seats in the house. Most of the time, and including Phish, these tickets are sold to secondary ticket agents. (stub Hub, etc). The the Band gets a percentage of the profits off those tickets. This create the illusion of bands, including Phish, charging $70 dollars per ticket. When if you average the cost per ticket with the sale to the secondary agencies its well over $70 dollars per ticket. Things to consider: The four guys in the Band don't exactly have final say in this. There is alot of overhead to pay and alot of people to pay to do a four night run at MSG. Phish's management isn't run by their vagabond friends anymore. They have familys and mortgages. And last but not least, its a business. You learn supply and demand on the first day of business school. Its not going to get any better. So my advice is work harder, work some OT, save 20 bucks a week for 2 months to cover getting your ass taxed to hell for tics. Drop the 6 grand for the software the ticket brokers use, Sell me cigs in the lot, get to work on lot. Be quick, be clever, date someone for their phish tic connections, We all have the one run we take it the rear for tics. It all balaces out it the end.
, comment by RoundMound
RoundMound The best way to get rid of scalpers is to not let anyone in the lots without tickets. If you did that, the demand would drop, thus the prices would drop. Too many people show up without tickets and then complain when you want to sell them for more than face value. On the 30th at MSG, we had an extra ticket and by the time we were on the street we had 2.5 times face value offers and didnt even ask for it. Other shows we've been at, we had trouble giving the tickets away. Like Kingfish68 said, its simple supply and demand.
, comment by skidmorephish
skidmorephish seems to me kingphish has the right answer here...its hard for any band to be egalitarian about the ticket process when in many cases its the promoter, venue and designated ticket agent who call the shots. you would think that a band like Phish, who can basically guarantee a sold out run of 3 or more shows, would be able to dictate terms a bit in exchange for that. so, setting aside a larger % of tickets for the fans would be a great start toward getting the good tix into the hands of the most loyal followers. one way to prevent re-sale at that point, would be to require the purchaser to provide i.d. at the venue when they present their tickets to ensure that they hadn't been re-sold. i understand this eliminates flexibility in attending/not attending and inconvenience some people, but it would serve a greater good. another possibility is switching to all electronic tickets which cant be downloaded until day of show, therefore eliminating transfer until the last min which would create a logistical shit show and therefore discourage scalping. lastly, another fair point raised is that the tix are worth what the market says they're worth. so, why not take 20% of best seats in the house and auction half of them off. that way, 10% of fans still get to pay face for great seats and 10% pay up, as they would have anyway using stubhub or the like, and the proceeds stay with the band which is preferable in my view. thoughts on any/all?
, comment by TheEmperorJoker
TheEmperorJoker I thought the scene got really out of hand on that second Dickens tour. I fear that A Christmas Carol is going to be way too mainstream and destory our beloved tour.
, comment by jackl
jackl @TheEmperorJoker said:
I thought the scene got really out of hand on that second Dickens tour. I fear that A Christmas Carol is going to be way too mainstream and destory our beloved tour.
Dude, no one says you've got to hear Dickens himself read it. Skip the tour and the scalpers and just read the book by yourself on the couch book tour.
, comment by Stoyankovich
Stoyankovich I went to a small "private" Dropkick Murphy's show a few years ago at Harper's Ferry in Boston. Given that it was a very small venue, the logistics involved with eliminating scalpers was quite easy. Although it does seem that the idea would very easily scale to much larger venues.

The process was quite simple. Online purchases were limited to (2) tickets per customer. This customer then had to provide and ID at the venue door that matched their credit card and order credentials. If such ID could not be provided then said "customer" was not admitted. This ensured that scalping could not take place - plain and simple. Don't ask me how they convinced the venue to operate in such a way, but it clearly worked flawlessly.
, comment by JARdale
JARdale After mail ordering and getting great seats for the entire Dickens 2.0 tour I bailed after just 3 shows because the wooks in the lot were just killing the scene and I did not want to be a part of it anymore. Besides..... Dickens opened with "Scrooge" all 3 nights and that's just waaaay too many repeats for me. It's just not like the old days anymore. Where's the "Tiny Tim" opener?
, comment by phishyzo
phishyzo Make all seats general admission....if you want good seats day of show, show up early.
Scalpers will hardly buy GA.
, comment by roycemark
roycemark This is such a tough issue. I can see the side of the people who think that scalping is just a part of a capitalistic society, and I also see the side of people who are outraged about ticket prices and think that no one should ever use a scalper. Its very easy for people to think idealistically and say that if no one purchases tickets from scalpers, then they will go out of business. (I would have thought that scalpers would stay away from Phish after being left holding so many tickets last summer) In an ideal world that might work.......but in this world, fans often break down and end up overspending on shows that they want to get in to. Most of us have done it at one point or another, which makes us each a part of the problem.
, comment by kindtrades
kindtrades @phishyzo said:
Make all seats general admission.....
please. at least half of the tour GA. (it's nice to have a lower ticket stub too... ...if every show was GA, I think it would be bad... remember how crowded the floor was at Charleston?)
, comment by 757phan
757phan @jackl said:
@TheEmperorJoker said:
I thought the scene got really out of hand on that second Dickens tour. I fear that A Christmas Carol is going to be way too mainstream and destory our beloved tour.
Dude, no one says you've got to hear Dickens himself read it. Skip the tour and the scalpers and just read the book by yourself on the couch book tour.
Your humor is beyond amusing sir. Thanks for the high brow smile.
, comment by nematode
nematode @kindtrades said:
please. at least half of the tour GA. (it's nice to have a lower ticket stub too... ...if every show was GA, I think it would be bad... remember how crowded the floor was at Charleston?)

remember how awesome the charleston shows were? and the rest of the tour for that matter?
, comment by adude
adude If you want to go, pay. If you don't, don't.
, comment by rppessolano
rppessolano The scalping is out of control!!!
, comment by phurry_phriends
phurry_phriends @The_Stallion said:
If you don't like it, don't buy them. Thanks for the money throughout the years, suckers. I look forward to this years shows.
Do you believe in rapture?
, comment by _rrot_
_rrot_ "customer then had to provide and ID ... matched their credit card and [other] credentials. If such ID could not be provided then said "customer" was not admitted. This ensured that scalping could not take place - plain and simple."

Such systems are a case of the cure being worse than the disease.

They eliminate your right to sell your ticket -- at any price -- if you are unable to use it for some reason. A horrible, horrible idea.
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