Interview: Mike Gordon - Hanover, NH - November 24, 1991

Last Updated: Wednesday, 30-Oct-2002 01:36:16 EST

These interviews are presented for educational purposes only and are reprinted without permission unless otherwise noted. They are copyrighted by the original owners and will be removed promptly upon request.
We link to the original site of the interview when possible.

Mike Gordon Interview

Dartmouth College

11/24/91

This interview with Mike Gordon took place the afternoon before the concert in Webster Hall on 11/24/91. The interviewers were myself and Chris Bingham. ("M" stands for "Mike" and "Q" for "question" obviously.) I'll be posting it in several different parts so stay tuned.

Q- So how was the tour?

M- It was a really good tour. It seemed maybe about a week too long.

Page- You know, I just think that the last week of any tour is going to be bad. . .

M- Could be

Page- . . . cause last tour was even longer.

M- Page do you want to do this interview?

Page- Nope

M- Any way the tour was about nine weeks. We covered a bit more ground in less time than we had before so there was a lot of driving, but it was very well organized. . . geographically and stuff.

Q- What's the story with the Elektra deal? John [Paluska] said that ...

M- We just signed the contract and . . . its for two albums guaranteed and they have an option to do two more and two more after that so ...

Q- And that's up to them?

M- Yeah, that's up to them, but usually bands don't get two guaranteed at once. It means they are more likely to promote the first one since they are going to have to do a second one also. Actually, it was five contracts that we signed, including the licensing of the two previous things.

Q- And those are going to come out on CD.

M- Yeah, a month or two later I think.

Q- What kind of creative musical control does Elektra have?

M- It's a good situation. What we agreed to is that the first album has "mutual creative control" which means that both we and the record company have to agree on the songs, the music, and the artwork. So the thing is, its unlikely that they are gonna say that "You can't do this". It's not going to help anyone if it's a stalemate situation, so I think they are going to be cooperative with what we want to do, and we're going to try to be cooperative too. The other albums don't even say "mutual creative control," but they are going to want to do certain things like pick the producer for the next album. But it's really just a good situation because we have access to more resources in general, and they are not going to force a situation on us, whether its the producer, or the cover, or what songs we have to play. And it's a small enough company that . . . well it just seems like the people there care about music and not just about business. They all seem to be very personable and easy to get along with. We really got the feeling that we were working together and not just against each other.

The only thing... it said in the contract that the songs we submit to be on the next albums... at first it said they had to be "commercially satisfactory"... but our lawyer didn't like the way that sounded because its possible that they could say, "this isn't going to be a radio hit," which its definitely not going to be. So he had that word changed to "technically" satisfactory which is a big difference, because that just means that it's recorded well in the studio... not whether it's going to be on the radio or not.

Q- That is a big difference. So what's the new album going to be like, the Picture of Nectar one?

M- It's very diverse. There's one song of every kind of music on it- jazz, country, Irish, funk, rock, reggae, Latin, you name it. It's mostly the stuff we've been playing over the past year a lot.

Q- Except for "Windham Hell" and "Catapult," right? And I've only heard you stick "Manteca" in Possum a couple of times.

M- Yeah but that's only ten or twenty seconds long. Well, the songs are more focused than... I think we've been moving in the direction of having songs be more focused, whereas on Junta they were long and patched together type songs. And the last album was sort of slightly shorter songs that are a little bit more concise. This album doesn't have any big epic type songs.

Q- Like "Fluffhead" and "David Bowie" type stuff?

M- Right. Which wasn't a conscious decision, it just sort of happened that way. It does make sense to put on some songs that are relatively short, because radio usually only plays songs that are less than four or five minutes, and none of our songs are less than four or five minutes. So its not often that some song will fit that category. And also, its not the most important thing to us, though there are still college stations that might play the stuff anyway, but still it's a consideration, if part of the purpose of making an album is to get some radio play, then you might as well think about that. But that's not really how we picked the songs. I think our songs are just going in the direction of being more focused.

Q- Why do you think that is?

M-Well... the weird thing about it is- let me just add one other thing that might answer your question- is that with the first album people said we sounded to much like our influences- some people said. With this album instead of developing our original sound, instead of going in that direction, it's like each song is an exploration of a certain kind of music or genre. So its moved even more towards our influences in a way. I think its just because we have been trying to play a lot of different kinds of music, and that probably the next album will go back more towards the direction where you couldn't classify each song as a certain kind of music. This album you can. Though "The Mango Song" is on there, and that's sort of hard to define.

Q- It seems like you are trying to develop all these different diverse things. Are you moving away from developing your own sound or do you feel that you are doing that through the various styles?

M- Yeah, I know what you mean, but I don't think we could really be moving away from our own sound. For one, there's no way we could play a country song as well as a country band or a Latin song as well as a Latin band. We could never expect to do that. We just keep doing what we do, what we know how to do. We sound like ourselves. In terms of developing a unique style, I just think that it's happening anyway in that playing these different kinds of music, it will just get mixed in eventually.

Q- You mentioned before that on the earlier album, people said you sounded too much like your influences. What were your influences for that album in particular... that people said you sounded too much like?... they could be completely wrong of course but...

M- They said there would be one section of a song that sounds like Zappa, one section of a song that sounds like the Allman Brothers, and stuff like that.

Q-Who would you say influenced your own playing?

M- I have a hard time with that question, actually. Because I don't really have a favorite bass player. I listen to a lot of bluegrass. We do play some of that stuff, and we probably wouldn't if I hadn't started encouraging those guys to play some more of it. But then again, I'm not a typical bluegrass bass player. There were different bass players that I listened to, but I don't think that any one of them was a direct influence. There were different bands that I liked at different times too. I was really into the Grateful Dead, and I still am- I don't listen to them too much, but for me they are a big influence.

Q- You are trying to get away from that Grateful Dead stereotype, aren't you. I've read some articles that suggest that you aren't too pleased with that sort of classification.

M- Right... although... It's just because people that haven't heard us think that we are a Dead cover band or that we sound exactly like them. If they already have opinions about the Grateful Dead- like if they don't like the Dead, then they won't come to see us, whereas maybe they would like us anyway. That's one problem. Also, it just kind of gets old with clubs booking us as a Dead cover band. It's sort of a slap in the face when we are trying to do something unique.

I'm not really allowed to talk about the Dead though. I think when we are at our best, we definitely do things that the Dead or no other band could do. We explore things and take things to the extreme. For example, jams sometimes turn into a really different sounding thing. Like the drum beat will change, or the chord progression will change- that sort of thing. Sometimes it will develop into something really specific that we've never played before. That's something that even jazz bands don't do too much. I mean they improvise all the time, but ... we try to change the structure sometimes.

[Break for soundcheck]

Q- What was that blues jam?

M- Just something for fun... just for the soundcheck.

Q- So you guys get to go home, now?

M- Yeah, it's been a long time

Q- So what are you going to do?

M- Rest. Write some songs, and that's about it.

Q- Where is home for you guys now?

M- Burlington, Vermont. For me it's actually Jericho, in a log cabin. A couple of the guys live together in Winooski, which is next to Burlington. A couple guys are homeless actually, because they moved out of their apartments before the tour so they wouldn't have to pay rent.

Q- I was wondering, when you guys write songs- Trey writes the majority I guess- does he or whoever has written the song pretty much plan it all out in terms of what the other instruments will do, or does he come up with some chords and lyrics and says, "lets work it out together."

M- Both ways. Sometimes he will give me a written bass line, and sometimes he will just have some structure and I'll write my own bass line. There are a couple of songs we wrote together actually, just by jamming.

Q- Like what?

M- "Tweezer". I don't know if I can think of another one.

Q- Are you going to continue playing the "Tweezer Reprise"? You don't seem to be playing it as much as you did with the horns.

M- Yeah, we still do it sometimes

Q- How did you like playing with the horn section?

M- It was great. They were really good.

Q- It's just a one shot deal though?

M- Yeah. They live in different parts of the country. It's not so easy to get them together. Yeah. It was fun for the summer. I think it might be a bit much to do all the time. Having seven people gets a little crazy.

Q- Do you have any new originals or covers that you're working on that are not on the album.

M- Well, there's four new ones we've been doing this fall that...

Q- I mean other than "Sparkle", "It's Ice", and the other two?

M- Yeah, I think that's about it. Those were the last four. We're going to take January and I think February to work on stuff.

Q- What about covers?

M- I don't think so. Well, I guess there are some that Fish is going to come out and sing. Oh yeah, we are all going to do "Rocket Man".

Q- Who's going to sing lead?

M- Page

Q- But that's not ready yet?

M- Well we just played it at a sound check and we had it pretty much right, but we have to go back and check some of the chords and stuff. It's not often that we learn cover songs.

Q- What happened to that tune "Goin' Down Slow". Actually, I have two questions about that. I heard the Howlin' Wolf version...

M- There are a few different versions of it.

Q- Where did the ending part come from [The "Leavin' on the last train" part]?

M-It was the same as the Bobby Bland version.

Q- Did that song fall through the cracks or something?

M- Trey said he felt stupid trying to sing like an old black guy, so he bagged it.

Q- When you guys are writing songs, do you run into much creative conflict?

M- We usually agree. The real arguments come later sometimes, like when a song hasn't been sounding good and we can it, and then we try to bring it back, and we change the drum beat, and people start yelling at Fish for playing the wrong drum beat. Or if he is trying to play a more complicated drum beat rather than the obvious one. So then there are some arguments.

Q- Does he try too make things to complicated generally?

M- He has gotten a lot more rock solid in the last couple of years. I haven't had any complaints this year. Actually, it's great to play with someone who tries to come up with interesting drum beats because it pushes the music in different directions.

Q- What are your goals- not you personally- but as a band, artistically or commercially? Realistically.

M- In terms of what's talked about, people's goals aren't really different than what's going on now. I guess everyone sort of hopes the records will sell. That could expose us to a more diverse crowd, or maybe to different countries. Travelling to different countries is a goal. I wouldn't mind playing huge places if we got an opportunity to, but it's nice to play small places too. Fish was saying yesterday that he doesn't ever want to play stadiums, or maybe he would once, he said.

Q- But I guess that's not really in the immediate future.

M- No. But there aren't really too many goals except to keep doing the same thing.

Q- So everyone's pretty much happy with the level that its at right now.

M- As long as we keep learning new music and getting better musically, there's a good chance that the record deal won't change anything.

Q- Paluska said there was a chance the deal could make everyone ornery and hate each other. I thought that was a bit negative but...

Q- Well, Elektra has no control over the live show, at least.

M- No. They don't have much to do with it.

Q- What's up with the new Gamehendge cycle that we've been hearing about? Llama, I guess is part of it.

M- Is it?

Q- So they say...

M- Gamhendge... I don't know much about Gamehenge... except that I'm a traveling minstrel from there. Yeah, Trey keeps fitting new songs into the scheme. Those guys want to do a Gamehenge album sometime.

Q- But you don't?

M - Well, there are some good songs.

Q- But you don't like some of them?

M- It's just that the whole "story" aspect of it has never been my thing. Maybe we would have done it already if I hadn't been negative about it before.

Q- What happened to those cool electronic tuners that you and Trey used?

M- I still have mine in my rack.

Q- Where did you get those?

M- Any music store. [ Personally I think this is bullshit, I've never seen them anywhere. Correct me if I'm wrong].

Q- How do you guys like the bass and guitar that Paul made for you?

M- They've been great. This is my second bass that Paul built me. There were some changes that were made. Sometimes I think of changes that could be made having to do with both the sound and the feel. In general, its great. A lot of other bass players play it and like it. Its definitely a beautiful instrument. Trey just had a spare guitar made this fall by Paul. Its different in some ways than the one he uses now. He tried to use it for a few gigs, and it was good, but he likes the sound of the old one better. He's just keeping it as a spare for now.

Q- Speaking of spares, how do you guys deal with shit breaking down on these long tours when you have to depend on it night after night? I know from experience that music equipment can be pretty flakey.

M- Well, first of all, its a matter of trying to get good quality name brand equipment that won't break. The crew pretty much can deal with it. Paul fixes everything, even the lights and the truck. If something goes really wrong we can call home and have John Fed-Ex an amp somewhere. We figure out ways to make do. Last tour my bass rig was breaking down every other night. I re-wired it this summer, and I guess it worked because it hasn't broken at all this tour. But, that was a pain. We would get on stage and Trey would count off the song, and I'd play the first note and nothing would be there. Those guys would just roll their eyes 'cause it kept happening. Then we started having Peter, the stage technician, go out and play a few notes before every gig to make sure it was working. It's kind of mess. There's a lot of wires up there.

To be continued in August of 1997.

Return to the Phish.Net interviews page.

News Tour Online FAQ Newbie Archives HPB Reviews Search

The Phish.Net web site is the work of Phish fans and has no official affiliation with the band or the official Phish web site at http://www.phish.com/. Please direct comments, suggestions and questions to webmaster@phish.net.